It's a busy time for Jeanmarie Grisi. The head of global pensions at Nokia*, she also serves on a handful of boards while navigating the almost-$40-billion in retirement assets at the telecom giant. Grisi took some time to talk about her start in the industry, her views on the markets, and a handful of other topics.

How did you get started in the financial-services industry?

Like many of my peers, it was largely by chance. I studied accounting at St. John's and got my CPA when I graduated and then worked in public accounting for a few years. But I didn't really see myself there long term. So I took a position as controller at a non-profit foundation in New York, and shortly after I joined, my boss left. So I slowly assumed management of the investment portfolio, and I really learned the investment business from external investment managers. Not long after came the crash of October 1987 and I was really thrown into it. That was obviously a period of tremendous uncertainty and volatility, but it was also a great learning experience.

Can you offer your views on the resiliency of financial markets of late, and what we might expect as we close out the year?

I think that companies have gotten really good at managing their costs after 2008 and in the wake of Covid. That, combined with cheap debt, is really helping profitability. I think the stock market is still fairly valued - it's not expensive, and it's not cheap - and the potential negative impact might come from an external source. So where normally the presidential election might not be a big deal over time, I'm not so sure this time around. And the unrest in the Mideast and what's going on in Ukraine is a concern. But the resiliency I'm not totally surprised about given where companies have positioned themselves.

Talk about your thoughts on the importance of active vs. passive in such a volatile environment?

We are big believers in active management, and that's particularly true in times of volatility when active managers can find more opportunities. We are a manager of managers, so we don't buy and sell securities, we rely on our managers for those day-to-day decisions. But we do believe that strong active managers that have good risk controls can add value over the long term. Passive has a place as well, and keeping some money there is not a bad thing even for institutional managers. For individuals, I do think keeping a large portion of the portfolio in passive is prudent, practical, and less expensive, especially if you're not someone who is really involved in paying attention to the markets.

AI has been one of the big stories of the last year or so. Any thoughts on the role of that in the investment management business?

As a manager of managers, we haven't really used it significantly, but I think AI for the investment management industry will benefit organizations for the efficiencies and some back-office functions. For our managers, we do see AI helping them digest vast amounts of data quickly, and that just helps managers sift through more insights. I'm not really an expert by any means, and I don't think it replaces what people do, but it helps. At the end of the day there is always a role for humans - those roles my shift, but they will still be there.

Diversity within the ranks of asset management is an important consideration at PGIM, and throughout the industry overall. Can you offer your views on the role diversity plays in your position as a CIO, and the evolution you experienced over the years?

Diversity is important, of course, and the definition of diversity is a lot broader than just race or gender. It's really about the diversity of ideas, and some of that comes from background differences which may very well be based on race or gender. But think about it - if 50% of the world is female, you'd think you'd be moving closer towards that in terms of representation. And we all know the financial-services industry still has a long way to go there. But the industry is trying to do better. I was just recently introduced to the organization 'Girls Who Invest' and they're having great success.

What is the biggest challenge in your role?

Hiring and retaining qualified staff is the biggest challenge. We're risk managers, so first we need people to understand that we don't buy stocks and bonds ourselves. We need to train them to think from a risk and fiduciary perspective.

What do you like to do to unwind outside of the office?

I like to spend time with my friends and family. I love to read. And I do serve on some other boards, including St. John's and Vantage Trust, as well being on the Advisory Committee of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. So I keep busy.

^{* Nokia outsourced the management of its DB, DC and OPEB trusts to Mercer Investments effective October 1, 2024.}